Sal Barbier’s life in skateboarding is a storied affair. From his introduction as the Louisiana swamp rat for H-Street in Shackle- Me -Not to the first African American skater with a Pro model shoe, his list of accomplishments is simply enormous. As one of the original team members for Plan B skateboards, founder of Aesthetics skateboards with one of the most influential teams and the time running 23 skateboards the home of Dill and AVE Barbier and Elwood clothing, Sal Barbier remains a step above the rest and in general trends continue to chase Sal and his innovations rather than the other way around. Sal Barbier is an innovator and no conversation about the lives of skaters of color would be complete without input sprinkling in some of his expertise. With a focus on his role as a global citizen and a person of color who grew up knowing the face of racism and prejudice in his youth, it was imperative to get his perspective on how racial politics operate fluidly in multiple situations. I interviewed Sal for my book, Color in the Lines and here I was able to speak to the fluidity of crossing borders and the value of blackness at different moments in time in different circumstances and the potential of the Olympics. I present to you the original ‘Super Good’ skateboarder and living legend Sal Barbier.
Interview by Neftalie Williams
Photos by Miki Vuckovich
Published in November 2020
Sal great to talk to you. Do you remember the first time you went on tour overseas? You said you went one time to Europe and to Asia, so I want to dig into those.
Yeah, I think around 1992-1993… it was a trip with Pat Duffy and we both travelled to England. I went to Cornwall at a beach and I remember the demo being outside and stuff.
Had you and Pat done a lot of demos together before that?
No, but I had done a lot of demos with H-street, with Plan B, that was kind of like the first time. It was the first time I went over there and visited; so that was cool, it was just a really long flight and not much sleep on the way over there.
How did you feel like you were received there being a person of color in the 1990’s?
I didn’t notice anything unusual because when you travel as a pro you’re kind of like in a sheltered world. If you think about it, you’re on the plane, you get off, you do the customs, and then as soon as you’re getting off the plane, someone’s right there picking you up. And the person that’s picking you up usually is pretty excited, because they’re picking you up for that reason- for skating and doing a demonstration, and they kind of take you to a place where everyone’s so excited to see you. Like, if you go straight to a shop, or a skatepark or something people have been really anticipating for you to be there. So, it’s kind of like above average treatment.
Yeah. It’s not the same as if you get off the plane and you are just trying to navigate a new country and go it all alone.
Right. And when I usually travel like that, you know, that trip in particular—you didn’t get to experience anything but the skateparks. (laughing)
Yeah, that is the pro skater lifestyle (laughing).
Now all my travels to Japan are the complete opposite, where I almost feel bad. I feel like I’m a burden when I’m over there because they won’t let me pay for anything, it’s customary. And if I’m there for a week, they take the entire week off and bring me to all these places, the treatment it’s just… Wow. They’re also extremely hospitable and they’re just catering to you and your experience the whole time, so they’re showing you all these things of importance, you know? I’ve seen a lot of really cool things when I’ve been over there.
Do they show you how they’re living and the things that they think you’ll be into?
Yeah, and it’s probably someplace they themselves don’t go every day. Usually it’s more like someplace where people would visit on a tour or some historic site.
Ok, to give you more of a cultural experience when you are there.
Exactly.
You know what’s funny, that’s the thing that a lot of pros have said over time, what they didn’t enjoy about tours is that they are in these famous places that have cultural history, but you don’t get a moment to absorb it. That was for pros across generations, different trips, and stuff, but that’s a key sentiment. However, from what you’re saying the trips to Japan have been special and unique.
Yeah, I went to Japan more than anyone and on multiple occasions. Europe was good but a different experience.
As an African American going to Japan, and being in that new cultural space, it sounds like they treated you well, but just give me an idea of how that felt to interpret.
They’re extremely hospitable, and at the time even when I was in Europe, it was good. Hip hop was breaking through, and I was so well received at the time, that it’s like, you kind of stand out anyway. People think, “Who is this guy?” especially when stereotypically, this is back then we all kind of looked like rappers (laughing).
Yeah (laughing) that was our fashion choice. It was just how we rolled.
Yeah so that was kind of cool. And in Europe I barely was out in a club, and in public, so, it was different—not really a comparable experience. When I was in Japan, you’re well received all the way around for skating and as a person. The people think “Oh, cool” and they seem generally interested, actually, interested in you and your story as a person of color. Because a lot of people at the time were into rap and they were hip hop heads. So, the clubs were kind of set up like that, when you went there, you think “Wow look at that corner over there, those people look like they’re from home.” It was insane, and they had relatable versions of us over there, where they really, really looked like New York.
Did that make you feel comfortable or at least feel like warm to be there, seeing a reflection and recognition of kind over there?
Oh, yeah a hundred percent, because it was like they were super inspired and inspired by Black and street culture in a way where, that’s what they wanted it to be.
I know what you mean.
Sometimes they might be overdoing it. Not in a bad way but it was funny, because a lot of that rap at that time, some of that stuff was pretty hard. So, you see the fashion side of it come in without the kind of negative context, you’re like… that’s cool (laughing).
Yeah that is always interesting. That it often is missing context of the creation of those styles. During interviews for my book skaters said, “it’s crazy sometimes because they’re trying to go harder than you even if it’s not about being hard, it could be just dancing more than you, like to try to impress you.” You think, “Yo, dawg, this beautiful, I don’t even get down like that myself” (laughing). In that way it operated differently than appropriation and feels more closer to an appreciation.
Yeah, I mean in Japan they just looked like more than I did. They had their locks, they had their Timberland and whatever was hip, whatever they were representing, you know, the hard dudes and the hippie dudes, like they all they nailed it. Whatever look they went after I was like, man you got it. (laughing)
You know when I was still living in New Zealand the Maori listened to a lot of reggae and hip-hop and it did really put my wife and myself at ease. We just kind of loved it a little bit because you’re seeing the spreading of the culture there. The best was Maori people just telling me, “Oh dawg, that’s just the shit we like. We are folks—welcome home.” (laughing)
Yeah. It’s really cool because it just makes people more familiar with and identifiable with POC. However, that is in both a good way and a bad way.
I know, and I understand what you mean, by a good way and a bad way. It gives you a starting point but then you also have to let people know, “It’s not every single thing you see, or every single thing you hear [to describe the experience of POC] we are still individual folks.” Right?
Yeah. Not every single person is like that. Though images might be popular but that isn’t really how everybody acts. Those are media portrays with varying degrees of truth.
Yes, exactly. There’s just so much to unpack. And that’s why I wanted to talk to you and get your perspective. You have been on tour for years. You are saying that you’re appreciative of foreign appreciation of POC culture, but you also were excited to experience their culture too. Like you said, your hosts making time to show you their lives and culture, that’s a real intercultural exchange. When you came back the first time from Japan, did you look at the US differently, or think about things differently?
I guess, because of the transition where I came up from in Louisiana things were, you know, it’s early 1980s. So, thinking through stereotypes when I grew up and people are skating, I may be the first Black dude they have really interacted with, so, they might not know how to react to that. A lot of things that they say that they don’t notice as being inappropriate—they may just say it and probably don’t even think much of it. They wouldn’t have understood how inappropriate that was.
But by the time you get to Cali, obviously, it’s a little more open minded. However, at the same time, like I was telling you before, [previous interview] there is a shift away from previous rock/hardcore for all the youth. There is a new dominant culture and that was hip-hop for all kids by default. White kids are into hip hop now too, so that changes everything because it’s like they’re trying to embody your culture in a sense. It’s a shift.
Yes, that’s a weird spot to be in. You watched the transition from Black, POC and urban culture as fringe culture to suddenly, Black popular culture is now regular popular culture. I know we talked about it in the book before as just being—mad jolting (laughing).
Yeah, that’s when you get people that try a little too hard, and I used to think, Ah they’ll just grow out of that and overdoing it [their personification of the culture]. [Described deeply in our previous interview in the book].
I have heard so many non-Black people, say “Man, I’m Blacker than them dudes”. No, you are not. It’s like, Nahh, I’m pretty certain when you go to get a job, I’m sure you’ll snap out of it (laughing). And then fast forward to them now, those same people have really snapped out of it to get their positions. You know what I mean?
[Editor’s Note: Please put this derogatory statement to rest it is insulting to everyone involved.]
Yes. And that’s because that’s our world, it’s different, it takes you growing up in that space. You know, I always feel like I bond with you from being from back east, dealing with that overt discrimination and covert racism which informs a different approach and the way we see California differently. That’s why I wanted to ask you about how you felt when you went abroad. When you leave the US, you’re both African American or a Black American, but you’re Black and American, at the same time, which is different. And there’s some privileges that come with that. As you said, people can be so excited about the Black culture but the flipside is that your people may assume your life fulfils the framework of the stereotypes of the moment.
Yes, and like I said, on tour we get a jaded [protected] view of everything when we travel. In Japan, that’s why I always went back, to learn more. I kind of went to a lot of rad places, and did things outside of the superstar sheltered culture, if you will.
And that’s kind of why I didn’t travel to a lot of places, because I thought, I’m not dealing with another Footlocker and Taco Bell and flying 12 hours to do that. (laughing) I’m cool, I don’t miss it. That traveling was weird to me.
Japan seemed to be the most comfortable for you. Are there any things that you felt like you could take away or that people could take away from Japan—parts of the culture that made you feel comfortable?
I liked everything about it, you know? I think the fact that they were incredibly hospitable, but willing to show you what was important, historically, to understand them, I thought that was cool, it meant something to do that. In another example when I got to Europe, I thought it was weird when the promoter said, “Where do you guys want to eat, want to just go to McDonald’s?” That was the first thing he said when we got off the plane. From McDonald’s we went to the skatepark. I just thought, I could do this at home, and be much more well rested. And I know I was there for business, and I respect that but if you’re going that far, you kind of change it up a bit, right?
Right, you’d like to try to enjoy it, even if it is work and make the travel a real trip.
Yeah, I’m not complaining, I definitely enjoyed it. But that’s the kind of experience I got when I was on tour in different places and I didn’t have anything much outside of that. Actually the craziest trip I went on was when I went to North Korean on a Gumball rally.
Really? That’s incredible.
Yeah because I remember when I got off the plane they seemed really fascinated with me, because I was like a brother [African American] in a place where our presence didn’t usually happen.
Where was that, in North Korea? Are you kidding me?
No. And the one dude, the guy that was taking us around was intrigued with me carrying my skateboard too, so he seemed like double fascinated. I swear to you, when I had my board and he looked at it said, “What is that?” He really didn’t know what it was and asked ok, “What do you do with it?” He looked at it like a UFO!
That’s crazy, when was that?
I think that’s like, 2006. When we went, we were obviously his guests, so, we were at their version of the Olympic Games front and centre. I fell asleep, during some it (laughing) I couldn’t stay awake, dude. We got the golden ticket to go there for the Gumball Rally. Everyone on the trip was like a super millionaire guy.
Yeah, and that was a different time then too.
Those guys all arranged it. We had Mark Cuban’s plane, we were flying around in that crazy 747 or whatever, that custom NBA Airbus and he just tells people who he is and what he’s doing. They were like, you can come in here, we’ll let you fly in. To think of that, it’s a private, giant plane flying, and it flew into China, and then we got on another plane and flew from China.
That’s crazy. Oh, man.
That private plane didn’t land over there obviously [North Korea]. We flew to China and we got another one and we flew over there. Actually, there were some weird places in China, where it’s just like, a bit depressing too.
Yeah, especially the time you were going right? Because it was 2006?
That was a separate trip for some manufacturing, but yeah. Usually you can travel somewhere, walk around, and get back to the hotel to relax, however at times there I didn’t feel fully comfortable. I also went to Cuba before and that was an interesting trip. Very different but also kind of familiar too.
Yeah just because it’s closer to home.
Have you been doing skate stuff over there?
Yeah, we were doing humanitarian missions to Cuba and had permission to travel there pre-COVID-19. I was Co-Chair of Cuba Skate but had to step down while working on the PhD, but Miles and Lauren are amazing and have been doing work for about 10 years now. We brought boards over to do clinics, workshops, we teach kids how to make boards too over there, to really get a chance to do diplomacy and get the kids there to understand that there is hope for people to people relations between our two countries. The last trip I went on, it was Miles and I and co-sponsored by Vice and Stance. We brought Ishod, Arto, Andrew Reynolds, Lucien Clark. It was a good trip, and everyone got to see where the skaters live and have a spot for everyone. It was a skate trip, but it was a deeper cultural exchange and the skaters really enjoyed regular days being with the people
I just kind of went over, and you can easily find someone that wants some money to take you around everywhere. We just found a local and we paid him and took us to all these places.
That exposure to Cuba and other countries is partly why I talk about the positively of Olympics. For skaters like Ronaldo, who is one of the best skaters in Cuba there is a limited chance to push skateboarding to become something beyond the personal without help. Skateboarding in Olympics means that, because of the Cuban government’s interest in sports, it can create a new mentality where officials might imagine, “Oh well, maybe this is a way for us to have young Cubans on the map for their prowess in a new sport.” Miles and the team have been talking to them about it for a long time on both sides attempting to create space. It is a long inroad though…
That’s cool.
Yeah, sometimes I try to let people know that if we move beyond our American perspective the Olympics could be a chance for young people globally to develop a voice with their legislators and their local government and their national government. It’s just different for kids in other countries sometimes. We don’t live the same lives and we might be afforded more freedoms. I talk to kids in other countries and they say, “Nah dawg, we don’t get nothing”.
Yeah. It’s funny you got some rebellious punk rock dude having an attitude about something going into the Olympics, and in other places it could be the biggest thing that ever happened to the place.
Exactly. Just an opportunity for them to see their young people and skaters differently. They don’t even have to win gold; it’s just the possibility of some funding and a team might be enough to build support in some countries. That changes the mentality, you know.
I mean, could you imagine going into the Olympics? It would be the coolest thing ever. Imagine if you were in it? It could be a game changer.
Exactly. Also, I did want to ask you, did you find a real difference in traveling as a company owner than when you first toured as a pro skater?
No, it didn’t because usually I was skating.
Ok then you were never just sitting back, if you were skating, then it’s still putting in work.
Yeah, 100%
Have you been to Brazil or South America for skating or demos? Just wanted to get your perspective there too.
No, I haven’t and that’s got to be the worst place for an American pro to try to demo at (laughing). You’ll go there to skate with them. A regular kid at the skatepark in Brazil is incredible.
Yeah exactly. Those kids are not playing like, they are hungry, and it is so serious there (laughing). Sal thanks for everything and giving us some perspective on all these topics. It’s great to catch up with you.
IG: @sal_barbier
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